The "Status of the Relationship" Talk

How to say goodbye

I received quite a few comments after the last post about the proper protocol for ending a date and whether the guy should feel it's necessary to follow up. IMHO if you're not interested in seeing the girl again just say, "It was nice to meet you," and that's the end of that. There's no need to say something about making future plans if you have no intention to do so. It's not rude to say goodbye or goodnight and leave it at that. 9 times out of 10 (or I guess I should say 4 times out of 19), it's been very obvious when a guy I've been interested in is also interested. If not, there's no need for a follow up call or text. Most of us are doing this as a numbers game, and she'll likely forget about you faster if you leave her alone.

Some guys reported that they occasionally receive a text from the girl after a date before he's messaged her. They say that it's encouraging if they're already planning to ask her out, but that it doesn't change his mind about whether to ask her out for a second time. If I ever think I haven't properly shown appreciation for a first date, I'm sure I'll send a thank you text, but for now I'm sticking to my tactics of making him contact me. So far it's working. I want a guy who's going to pursue me so this seems like a good leading indicator.

He's out there somewhere. I know it.

TMI

One of the awkward things about online dating is that you know the person you're going on dates with is, well, online dating. So far I haven't talked to anyone who has only sent or received a single message, gone out with that person and lived happily ever after. That means both of you are talking to, and possibly seeing, multiple people with the intention of seeing if it goes anywhere romantically. In the real world, that may or may not be the case, but you don't know one way or the other.

Another awkward thing is that you each have a profile, often on multiple dating sites. On some dating sites you can see the last time someone logged in. As if you needed a reminder that your new crush is still thinking about dating other people. Maybe he's still actively messaging new girls, maybe he's just reading through any messages he's gotten, maybe he's only looking to see when I last logged in (I think only girls do this last one, but who knows). Finding a guy's profile on another dating site is a little deflating. It feels almost like seeing him on a date with another girl. This all is of course incredibly hypocritical since I'm still active on sites and have profiles on 7 of them, but it's a good reminder to protect my heart and not fall too fast, which I have a tendency to do.

The "status of the relationship" talk

Don't worry, this hasn't happened yet. There are still more blog posts to come. I've now seen Climber Guy enough times that if this were the real world, I wouldn't be seeing other people whether or not we'd discussed what was going on with the two of us. I have no problem with going on first dates with lots of different guys, but the idea of actually dating multiple men feels very strange to me. I'm not very good at juggling. However, with online dating it feels foolish to not be continuing to talk to other people when it's very likely the other person is still doing so. I'm still checking my daily bagel on CMB, but I'm only reading, not generally responding to, messages anymore. I've canceled one date and didn't bother following up with two others that were tentatively scheduled for this week. We'll see if this turns out to be good or bad decision.

At some point in every relationship, you have "the talk". Usually that conversation has gone very painlessly as you're fairly confident that the other person isn't actively seeing anyone else anyway. (That has turned out to be untrue in prior relationships, but that's a topic for another post.) Online dating is a whole different beast. Instead of being pretty sure the person isn't seeing anyone else, with online dating you're pretty sure that they ARE. Then there's the whole profile part. Do you even talk about that? Just pretend you never met online? Trust but verify? This is far too complicated.


So... I have a blog

In addition to the complications caused by online dating in general, there's this whole blog thing. I've tried to be respectful of the people I've been seeing, but you never know how someone is going to react to finding out that they've been written about in a blog, particularly one with 10,000+ pageviews. (I'm still amazed by this.) It could be fine. It could mean an early death to a relationship, though probably one that would have eventually occurred anyway. There's also the question of how exactly to bring this up and when. I try not to talk about the online dating thing in general while on dates. It's just weird. But that will likely need to be the start to the blog conversation. When to bring it up is also a debate. Wait too long and it might seem like I'm hiding something. Bring it up too early and it could seem like I'm trying to push things along too quickly. <sigh>

Instead of thinking about this more, I'm going to watch the free concert happening outside my building at work today, have a glass of wine this afternoon, then go climbing with my lovely friend who share this gem on Facebook today.

Thanks for the pic J.B. <3

I Regret Nothing!

When a guy resorts to immature insults, my Ice Princess instincts kick in and I find it much easier, and more entertaining, to mess with the guy than to get upset. (You can thank my high school boyfriend for giving me the Ice Princess nickname.) However, I’ve been lucky that none of the jerks have been guys I’ve actually met in person. I have somehow managed to keep them contained to these websites.

A friend of mine wasn’t so lucky. She went out with a guy and when she told him she wasn’t interested, he went psycho to the point where he was actually being frightening. She is an attractive, intelligent, successful woman who does not under any circumstances deserve to be treated this way.

A group of us have been giving her our two cents on what she should or shouldn’t do next. I thought we could break down what happened for all of you so that this never happens to her (or any of you) again, and you all could help us decide what she should do.

His profile

I love OKCupid A-list and its invisible browsing. It means I can check out profiles for my friends and the guys will never know. So this guy’s profile has a bunch of red flags -

1. He’s listed as “replies often”. That means either no one messages him or he’s desperate and writes back to everyone who gives him the time of day.
2. In two of his photos, there’s a girl standing next to him who is cropped out. I don’t care who she is, but don’t make girls guess. Get a better photo.
3. He says he’s 5’8” but has no photos of him standing in a group where you can see how tall he actually is. The chances of him actually being 5’8” are slim to none.
4. His 2013 to-do list includes several adrenaline junkie activities, but other than one whitewater rafting photo, there’s no other mention of being an adventurous person on his profile. As a true adrenaline junkie (“Hi, I’m S. I’m an addict.” “Hi, S.”) I can tell you that he wants people to think he’s adventurous, but he’s really not. I’ll take it back if he actually ends the year with a Tough Mudder race bib like he claims he will. Even if he does, it’s a fun race, but it’s not actually that impressive.
5. He mentions something about being good at making up reasons for why he’s on an online dating site. Combine that with his height and he likely has some serious self-esteem issues. (Sorry to the short guys out there, but it’s true.) He also mentions that he doesn’t eat fruit. That’s just weird.
6. He says he’s interested in girls 18-35. 18??? That’s disgusting and nearly half your age.
7. He says you should message him if you’re an emotional drunk because watching a breakdown is entertaining. Seriously, dude? I already want to smack this guy.

Pre-date messages

The first message wasn’t too bad. A little long, which reinforces the desperation that his profile insinuates, but it was generally complimentary. It asked whether or not she usually dates Asian guys (she is Asian), again implying that he doesn’t have much self-confidence. The message was also sent at 4:15 AM. The warning bells are getting louder.

Unfortunately, my friend made a few classic blunders. First, she apologized for not living in the city. Don’t apologize for anything before you meet a guy. You’re a catch! He should be willing to go to Timbuktu to meet you. Then, she gave both her phone number and name out before he did. She hates these messaging systems, as most of us do, but it’s jackasses like this that continue to prove my point of why it’s worth keeping your information private until you meet the guy and can see if he’s going to go completely bananas on you or not.

Once they moved to texting, the guy started showing his true colors. She suggested a neighborhood for them to meet in. He started interrogating her about why she wanted to go to that neighborhood and got upset that she had plans for later in the evening on a weekend night. (This is why I don’t do weekend nights for a first date.) Then he started saying that she’s going to “dine and ditch”. She felt bad that he got that impression, but in actuality, he’s an ass for ever even implying this in the first place.

The date

The date was fine, but she wasn’t feeling any chemistry. He said a few weird things, like that he once had a girl throw a pepper shaker at his head during a date. (I’m sensing a pattern of behavior on his end.) She offered to split the bill, and he declined as he should have. His profile says he makes over $100K so it’s not like this was a big imposition. She then offered to buy him a drink because she felt uncomfortable after the “dine and ditch” conversation and wanted to make sure he didn’t feel like she was taking advantage of the situation, which does happen. It was fine for him to go for a drink, but he should have paid for the drink as well if he were a true gentleman.

Then he continued to break all sorts of first date etiquette rules and asked her what she thought of the two of them. He didn’t just ask her out a second time. He asked her to define their 5 minute long “relationship”! She told him she thought they were better as friends and immediately realized he was actually interested. Then the crazy appeared.

Post-date messages

First message from after dinner -

FYI the best etiquette is to insist to split the bill if you're not feeling a connection

Nope, buddy. You may think you’re super smart with your midwestern MBA, but the best etiquette is for the guy to pay. Period. She apologized, which was again unnecessary. And despite the apology, he started being a total f-ing douchebag.

I was trying to keep an open mind despite the ethnic studies, mannish look and marketing background. Thanks for the lesson on generosity.

My friend was obviously shocked and disturbed that she was getting this ridiculous of a response. She said that she hadn’t intended to lead him on. She was being genuine with him, giving him very straight answers. There was nothing she could have said that would have made him calm down. He went on to call her a lesbian, since in his puny little mind she must like women if she’s not into him, and said she had a thick bottom half, which she does not. She got a little peeved and called him an “MBA douchelord” (thanks for making all of us look bad, jerk). He continued to insult her personality, her appearance and her career. Mocking her career and company (saying she works on a no name product that’s destined to fail) was particularly amusing to me since he is working at a start up that is very much struggling to get off the ground and has been rejected multiple times from the company where she works. Impressively, she ended with -

I still wish you the best. It's very sad to see such a hateful litany from you. I don't think you're this kind of guy whatsoever and am hoping you're just having a bad night. Take care of yourself.

He continued to send her nasty messages, proving just how insecure and pathetic he is.

Now what?

So, my dear readers, we’re leaving it up to you to decide what she does next. Several of our friends are a little, shall we say, vindictive. Personally, I think we can take the high road (which is what she has already done and plans to do unless convinced otherwise), be intelligent and still show the asshole just how awful he was. Here are our options:

1. Online retaliation

   Example: set up a fake OKCupid or Grindr profile with his info and mess with him

2. Offline retaliation

   Example: flyer his office with print outs of the asinine texts he was sending

3. Circulate this post

Personally, I think any additional attention that she gives him feeds his pathetic little ego. She (and the rest of my friends) are better off focusing their time and attention on the nice guys out there who aren’t going to treat women like this.

If you agree with #3 (and live in or know anyone in SF), I’ll ask a few things of you:

1. Send this to all of the girls you know who are doing online dating so they know to avoid this guy if they ever run across him or a guy like him
2. Send this to any guy you know who could be a douchebag online dater
3. Repost this on Facebook or whichever other social networks you’re on

I don’t think I’m underestimating how small San Francisco is or how powerful the network of business school students is in this city when I’m guessing that this blog post could very easily reach his inbox by the end of the day. Like I said previously, when you’re online dating it’s in your best interest to treat people well.

This has been a public service announcement. The end.

To Online Date or Not To Online Date

Online dating? No thanks

I've always been opposed to online dating. It was fine for other people, but not my thing. I hate awkward situations, and I find it hard not to show it when I'm bored or annoyed. Meeting someone in person from a dating site seemed like the most awkward situation I could think of. Growing up I had a ton of pen pals. Nearly always, any written connection just didn't exist when we actually met. Needless to say, I was skeptical that it was going to be any different with online dating. My affinity for online dating decreased even more when I discovered that my ex had profiles on several online dating sites while we were living together (classy, right?). Plus, I never had a problem meeting guys in real life. I didn't need this online dating nonsense.

The musical chairs of dating

Since the end of my last relationship, the pool of available men has seemed much smaller. A friend has a great analogy for dating in your 30s - it's like you're in a game of musical chairs and everyone else sat down, but you didn't get the memo that the music stopped. I have always been a serial monogamist. After a string of poorly chosen relationships, I found myself single for the first time since middle school. Until the last relationship ended, I could count on two hands the number of months I'd been single since I was 14. That strategy obviously wasn't working too well so I figured maybe now was a good time to change tactics.

It's go time

I'm naturally competitive and an over-achiever. With the rest of my life, if I want something, I go get it. If I want to accomplish something, I find a way to do it. Climbing mountains, getting my dream job, running a marathon - all achieved by working my ass off and knowing exactly what I wanted. Yet for some reason, dating was the opposite. I was just passively waiting around to see who the next guy would be to fall into my life. As much as I hated the idea of online dating, it was proactive. And from what I could tell, every eligible straight guy in San Francisco was online.


The misadventures begin

After polling my friends for a clever username, I went onto OKCupid and set up an account. Before I had uploaded a photo or filled in any information, I was getting spammed. The first message was from a guy in Turkey. This wasn't starting well. After a few glasses of wine, writing my profile wasn't as painful as I was expecting. Before I had even finished my profile, the deluge of messages had started. In the first three days, I had 115 messages. Flattering, sure. But the vast majority was crap. It was exhausting to wade through all of the nonsense. I was invited to "special dinners" (scared to think what those might be), called the "female Tintin" (is that supposed to be a compliment?) and told my "profile pic is a bait for a man to read your profile" (I thought that was the point). Some of the messages were thoughtful, but as soon as I looked at the guy's profile we were obviously not a match. This was starting to feel like a whole lot of effort, but at least I would get a few good stories out of this even if I didn't find my dream guy.


Welcome to the party

Now after 2 weeks, 300+ messages, 4 dates and 3 more scheduled, I already have more than just a few good stories. I posted some of the highlights and lowlights on Facebook. The posts got more likes and comments than I ever expected (and a small army of friends who are now determined to find me a boyfriend). At their urging, I'm starting a blog of my misadventures. Posts to come will include the best and worst messages, awkward meet ups, tactics that seem to work and not work, and comparisons of all the different sites out there. If you have your own online dating story that you want to share, leave a comment and we'll chat. And of course, if you've got an amazing single guy friend, let me know. Enjoy :)