The "Status of the Relationship" Talk

How to say goodbye

I received quite a few comments after the last post about the proper protocol for ending a date and whether the guy should feel it's necessary to follow up. IMHO if you're not interested in seeing the girl again just say, "It was nice to meet you," and that's the end of that. There's no need to say something about making future plans if you have no intention to do so. It's not rude to say goodbye or goodnight and leave it at that. 9 times out of 10 (or I guess I should say 4 times out of 19), it's been very obvious when a guy I've been interested in is also interested. If not, there's no need for a follow up call or text. Most of us are doing this as a numbers game, and she'll likely forget about you faster if you leave her alone.

Some guys reported that they occasionally receive a text from the girl after a date before he's messaged her. They say that it's encouraging if they're already planning to ask her out, but that it doesn't change his mind about whether to ask her out for a second time. If I ever think I haven't properly shown appreciation for a first date, I'm sure I'll send a thank you text, but for now I'm sticking to my tactics of making him contact me. So far it's working. I want a guy who's going to pursue me so this seems like a good leading indicator.

He's out there somewhere. I know it.

TMI

One of the awkward things about online dating is that you know the person you're going on dates with is, well, online dating. So far I haven't talked to anyone who has only sent or received a single message, gone out with that person and lived happily ever after. That means both of you are talking to, and possibly seeing, multiple people with the intention of seeing if it goes anywhere romantically. In the real world, that may or may not be the case, but you don't know one way or the other.

Another awkward thing is that you each have a profile, often on multiple dating sites. On some dating sites you can see the last time someone logged in. As if you needed a reminder that your new crush is still thinking about dating other people. Maybe he's still actively messaging new girls, maybe he's just reading through any messages he's gotten, maybe he's only looking to see when I last logged in (I think only girls do this last one, but who knows). Finding a guy's profile on another dating site is a little deflating. It feels almost like seeing him on a date with another girl. This all is of course incredibly hypocritical since I'm still active on sites and have profiles on 7 of them, but it's a good reminder to protect my heart and not fall too fast, which I have a tendency to do.

The "status of the relationship" talk

Don't worry, this hasn't happened yet. There are still more blog posts to come. I've now seen Climber Guy enough times that if this were the real world, I wouldn't be seeing other people whether or not we'd discussed what was going on with the two of us. I have no problem with going on first dates with lots of different guys, but the idea of actually dating multiple men feels very strange to me. I'm not very good at juggling. However, with online dating it feels foolish to not be continuing to talk to other people when it's very likely the other person is still doing so. I'm still checking my daily bagel on CMB, but I'm only reading, not generally responding to, messages anymore. I've canceled one date and didn't bother following up with two others that were tentatively scheduled for this week. We'll see if this turns out to be good or bad decision.

At some point in every relationship, you have "the talk". Usually that conversation has gone very painlessly as you're fairly confident that the other person isn't actively seeing anyone else anyway. (That has turned out to be untrue in prior relationships, but that's a topic for another post.) Online dating is a whole different beast. Instead of being pretty sure the person isn't seeing anyone else, with online dating you're pretty sure that they ARE. Then there's the whole profile part. Do you even talk about that? Just pretend you never met online? Trust but verify? This is far too complicated.


So... I have a blog

In addition to the complications caused by online dating in general, there's this whole blog thing. I've tried to be respectful of the people I've been seeing, but you never know how someone is going to react to finding out that they've been written about in a blog, particularly one with 10,000+ pageviews. (I'm still amazed by this.) It could be fine. It could mean an early death to a relationship, though probably one that would have eventually occurred anyway. There's also the question of how exactly to bring this up and when. I try not to talk about the online dating thing in general while on dates. It's just weird. But that will likely need to be the start to the blog conversation. When to bring it up is also a debate. Wait too long and it might seem like I'm hiding something. Bring it up too early and it could seem like I'm trying to push things along too quickly. <sigh>

Instead of thinking about this more, I'm going to watch the free concert happening outside my building at work today, have a glass of wine this afternoon, then go climbing with my lovely friend who share this gem on Facebook today.

Thanks for the pic J.B. <3

Journey from First Message to First Date

Today we're going to do a deep dive into how the 19 first dates I've been on have come about. From who sent the first message to how long it took to ask me out. Here goes.

Meme courtesy of C.W.

Sources

OKCupid has overwhelmingly been the best source of dates. 17 of the 19 dates have been from OKC. Of the other two, one was from Coffee Meets Bagel and the other from match. Granted I have been on OKC longer, but the dates from OKC started materializing quickly, while the other two are lagging far behind.

The first move

For every single date I've been on, the guy has sent the first message. I haven't sent all that many messages out first, but so far none of those have turned into dates. The mutual matching thing has been useful though. It's a very easy way for me express interest without even needing to send a message. Five of the dates came about from a mutual match of some type, though in every case with the exception of the CMB date where you rate simultaneously, the guy has rated me highly first.

The first message

The messages I've responded to that have turned into dates haven't been that long or even that clever. Nearly all of them referenced something in my profile, usually one of the activities I mention that I'm clearly passionate about, and most were only a few sentences. If I feel like there's enough in the message to start a conversation, it's not rude, and I find the profile pic attractive, I'll click through to look at his profile and decide whether to respond.

GUYS: Don't waste a ton of time writing a first message. Just read her profile and mention something about it  that you find interesting.

LADIES: Write about things that you're passionate about. Make it easy for a guy to find something to reference.

Pulling the trigger

Average number of messages he sends before actually asking me on a date is four. A few asked in the first message and the longest was seven. The longer ones usually happened when there were quick back and forth messages right away. Generally I'm going to get bored with the conversation if he doesn't ask me out relatively quickly. I say in my profile that I'm not looking for a pen pal. We're all on these sites to go out on dates so there's no point in beating around the bush.

The waiting time

After he asks me out, there are usually quite a few messages back and forth to schedule the date and pick an activity. Some banter is helpful too so that it all seems a little less awkward. It averages out to be twelve messages that he sends before we actually meet up.

From first message to first date is averaging a little over eight days. This is partly because I have generally avoided weekend night dates and reserve at least two weekday nights for my friends so that only leaves three possible nights and weekends during the day. The average is definitely going up as time goes on since my schedule is getting packed earlier and earlier in advance. I've only once met up with a guy the same day he asked me, and that was because he realized I had found him on LinkedIn already. Oops. Need to make sure I'm logged out before doing any investigating.

The date

Despite saying I like creative dates, the first dates have still been mostly the standard - seven have been drinks, three coffee. For the creative dates, leading the way are climbing (2) and the Exploratorium (2). If it's a non-creative date, I generally make sure it's somewhere close to home for me. I don't mind going farther if it's something a little out of the ordinary.

A second date?

So far all four of the guys I felt like I hit it off with have asked me on a second date. The asking on a second date situation has varied quite widely. For all four second dates, the guy has asked me out again AFTER the date was over either by text or via the messaging system. Five more guys have asked me out explicitly (as in saying let's plan a day and time) and I have declined. Four additional guys at the end of the date said they wanted to hang out again, but I never heard from them. I wasn't interested and would have declined, but I find this intriguing. Perhaps my somewhat flippant reply made it obvious that I wasn't interested, but if that's not the case, I wonder why the guy even bothered saying anything. Maybe he felt like it was polite? It's odd though. Five guys disappeared after the date, never to be heard from again. And the last one messaged me after, but never asked for a second date and faded away too.

GUYS: Just wait until later to ask her out a second time. It's awkward if she's not interested, and you seem like a gentleman for following up if she is. Wins all around!

Of the second dates, two were dinner, one was drinks and the last was the infamous laser tag. I went on a third date to a Giants game at which point I realized there definitely wasn't chemistry with that guy. The other third date was a bonfire which was super fun. There's still one more in play for a potential third date, but we'll see how things progress.

Ain't Nobody Got Time for That

Today we'll compare two dating services that take the minimal amount of time to use - Coffee Meets Bagel and Tinder. They're perfect for people who are super busy or aren't quite ready to dive into the full-blown world of online dating.

Setting up a profile

CMB: This service links with your Facebook account. The site pulls over a little bit of information so your profile already has some parts filled in. Like all of the sites, there's a part for your basic info like age and current city. It also asks for your occupation and education details. The next section is fill in the blank with prompts like "I like" and "I am". The last section is hidden from the public view of your profile and asks for what kind of person you want to be shown based on age, gender, ethnicity and religion.  CMB let's you add up to 4 photos. You can import from Facebook or upload a photo. Overall, pretty simple.

Tinder: It's as easy as it gets for setting up a profile. Like CMB, you link your profile with your Facebook account. You confirm you gender, add up to 5 photos from Facebook and write a one liner "About you". It pulls your age from Facebook, and apparently some people have the wrong age from Facebook and that's what their one liner says. It's strange. The photos can look kind of grainy so you have to check what the public view looks like. Lastly, you pick your settings for what type of person based on how far away from you they are (it can be set as close as one mile) and age range. For some reason it shows me guys well outside my age range. Not sure why. That's it.


Cost of an account

CMB: The account is free and there's no premium service. The site has a currency, "beans", that you can earn by inviting people to the service, answering questions about your matches, and a few other things. You can also buy extra beans. The beans can be used to find out which Facebook friends you have in common, rematch with a bagel you missed (didn't respond within the 24 hour time limit) or find out where you rank on the site.

Tinder: Free. No premium services.


The website

CMB: Every day at noon the service sends you an email with your bagel for the day (I don't always get the emails for some reason). Each day you can view one guy. You click on the email to open up the website and view your bagel. You can like or pass. If you like you get matched up over text. On the site you can also view your bagel history.

Tinder: No website.


The mobile app

CMB: No mobile app. I think this is one negative about this service. You can view your bagel on a mobile browser, but it doesn't look great. With a mobile app, it's likely more people would view their daily bagel within the 24 hour window.

Tinder: When you open the Tinder app, you first see a basic view of a guy's profile. You get the primary photo and see the number of Facebook friends and likes (any page or activity that you've liked on Facebook) that you have in common. You can open up the profile to see all of the photos and the details on common friends and likes. You swipe left to pass and right to like. Once you pass there's no way to see the profile again since there's no search function. The swiping is a little sensitive and I've accidentally both passed and liked people I didn't intend to. If you both like each other, it connects you via the messaging service in the app.

Quality of the guys

CMB: The service was started by a Harvard Business School alum and her two sisters. The site so far attracts relatively successful people, including a lot of MBAs, some of whom know each other. Most of the guys I've passed on because I haven't found them attractive. Of the 35 bagels I've gotten to date, I've liked 6 and been matched with 3. Two of the others I've liked later did the second chance option, but I passed the second time. One of them I found on Beautiful People, which is so sleazy, and the other I already connected with on OKCupid and he kept disappearing and reappearing. I'm not sure why he didn't just message me again on OKCupid. Of the 3 I've matched with, I've only met up with one. Another I may meet up with at some point. The third I texted with for awhile, but we could never make schedules work and we eventually stopped trying. I have two hypotheses why it's been tough to meet up with these guys - 1) they're successful and therefore quite busy and 2) when you're communicating over text message, you don't see the guys' photos and it makes the interaction a bit more impersonal since you forget who they are exactly and what they look like.

Tinder: I played around with the app for about a half hour on Saturday. I matched with 14 guys and got messages from 8 of them. Most of the messages just said, "Hi, how are you?" Two of them were trying to meet up that night, probably looking for a girl to go home with. I only responded to one message so far. Hard to tell the quality of the guys since you get so little information and I haven't met any of them. Everyone seems to be on multiple sites. Two guys I matched up with I had already seen on OKCupid. One I recognized the photo of, but I can't remember if we talked. I have to check my message history. The other I didn't recognize, but he recognized me and sent me a message. I also came across Climber Guy and accidentally passed when I tried to open his photos. It felt a little awkward to see his profile. I'm not sure if he had already seen mine or not.

The integration with Facebook is an interesting twist. It clues you in on a little more information about the person, and you can also ask your common friend who he is. On Saturday I took a screenshot of one guy's profile and sent it to my friend who was our mutual Facebook connection. Her response - "run". Good thing I asked before swiping right.


Update on Climber Guy: Things have been going well. We spent most of the weekend together. We packed in a lot of stuff - bonfire at Ocean Beach, impromptu party at a winery, concert at Stern Grove, mini-hike around the Baker Beach area. It's starting to feel a little weird to keep talking to other guys and especially to still have dates planned. I already canceled one date because I wanted to keep hanging out with him. But since he still has profiles on at least two dating services, I have to assume he's still talking to other girls until he tells me otherwise.

The Juggling Act of Online Dating

Online dating and reporting the stories back to all of you have become a bit of a part time job. I'm active on two different sites, signed up for an in-person meet up group called Events and Adventures, and marginally active on three additional sites. It's become a bit of a juggling act to keep all of it straight, especially since I've never dated multiple people simultaneously before. I'm a quite organized person so I've developed a few tactics to keep myself sane.


I'm available Tuesday. Wait, no I'm not.

When I first started talking to guys about scheduling dates, I didn't pay close enough attention to which days I said I was available. A few times that resulted in more than one guy saying he wanted to see me on the same day. There's no way I can handle more than one date in a single night (even in 24 hours as the date-a-thon proved) so I needed to do something differently. My entire life is in my calendar so I started adding holds to my calendar if I told a guy I was available that day. This method seems to be working and has meant far less back and forth trying to schedule things.


Where are we meeting again?

At the beginning I was a little lazy about what I put into the calendar entry for a date and often just entered the guy's name at the date and time we agreed to. This worked fine until I accidentally deleted all of my OKCupid messages. Since I don't generally give out my phone number before meeting a guy from OKC that meant I had no way to contact the guy and didn't know if we had actually confirmed a place to meet. It's also helpful to read the messages you've sent each other or at least look at his profile again before meeting in person. After some digging through my search history I managed to figure out their usernames. I had to send a few awkward messages asking if we'd picked a place yet. Now I make sure to add any details on the location as well as the guy's username to my calendar. And I don't delete messages anymore either.


Sorry, but who is this?

On Coffee Meets Bagel you don't have much of a choice about exchanging phone numbers because the number they set up for you expires after a few days. With the first few it was easy to keep the phone numbers straight. Then yesterday happened. I was texting with one guy and about to confirm a date. Then I got a text from a number I didn't recognize. He turned out to be the guy I thought I had already been texting with. Oops. Now all phone numbers get stored with a name. I'll have to clean out my phone at some point, but no more close calls like that.


I'll be at home washing my hair.

In prior relationships I've often gotten way too involved with the guy far too quickly at the expense of relationships with my friends and participating in activities that I enjoy. When these relationships have ended, it often felt like there was a gaping hole since I'd been spending so much time with that person. Now that I've been single for awhile, I've gotten much more protective of "me time". An interesting side effect of these dates being exhausting at times is that I've started scheduling much more time with my friends as well as time to take care of general life tasks. I also won't cancel on my friends just to see a guy I'm interested in. I'll need to re-read this post when I actually start another relationship.

It's a Small World After All

San Francisco is a notoriously small town. You're generally no more than 6 degrees of separation away from everyone. Often it's more like two. Not surprisingly, the world of online dating reflects just how small this city is.


Here are some of the most common scenarios:

He's dated one of her friends
A week or so ago, I got a message from one of my close friends asking if I knew a guy who had been Tinder* messaging her. I did, in fact, know this guy. We had gone out a few times not that long ago, and based on my experience he wasn't exactly looking for anything serious. I said I didn't mind if she went out with him, but she thought it was too weird. Game over on that potential meet up.

He's checked out or hit on one of her friends
The same friend mentioned above was telling me about a guy who she'd been messaging through OKCupid. They were really hitting it off and had a date planned. She told me his username so I could check out his profile (on invisible viewing of course) and tell her what I thought. Before I'd even had a chance to do this, I saw his name pop up that he was looking at my profile. Fortunately, he didn't also message me, but it was quite the reminder that everyone on these sites is seeing multiple people. In another example, I was telling a different friend about a guy I had a date scheduled with. She thought she knew who I was talking about and pulled up his Facebook profile. Sure enough, same guy. While she had been looking for a potential roommate, he had come over to look at her place and afterwards asked her out. She didn't go out with him so I still did, but the date was slightly awkward because of it.

You already know each other
Some of you have told me you've run across my profile, and I'm sure more of you have than I know of. I've been lucky only to find a few people that I recognize, but many friends have stories about running across coworkers. It's just awkward, but good to remember that you're not as anonymous as you'd like to think on these sites.

Everyone is on multiple dating sites
I haven't been on Coffee Meets Bagel** for very long so I've only seen profiles for a few guys on that site and have "liked" only a handful. I was looking through the profiles I've had come through. Then I switched over to Beautiful People***. One of the guys from CMB also had a profile on Beautiful People using the same profile pic. I really shouldn't judge since I'm also on there. But I'm there as a social experiment for the blog, and I doubt he's doing the same, so I'm definitely judging.

Your dates know each other
Coffee Meets Bagel was founded by an MBA student so there seems to be a high number of MBAs on that site compared to the other sites. I looked at the Facebook friends that I have in common with two of the guys I have dates set up with. Based on where they went to school and our mutual friends, they definitely know each other. This has the potential to get super awkward.


*Tinder: An iPhone app where you see a photo and the Facebook friends you have in common. If you match, they put you in contact with the person over text. Often, but not always, it's used to find someone to meet up with out at a bar. Minimal effort required to find dates.

**Coffee Meets Bagel: Each day you receive a "bagel" in your email. You open the site to see the person's photo and basic information about the person. Like Tinder, if you match, they put you in contact over text. You can use coffee bean points to unlock the Facebook friends you have in common. Almost no effort required since the potential dates are sent to you each day.

*** Beautiful People: This site is the lowest of the low for the sites I've seen. To become a member, you upload photos, and you are voted in based on attractiveness. The people on this site are objectively much more attractive, but they often seem to be much more shallow as well (no surprise there). From what I can tell, to actually get matched with someone you have to pay for the premium service. Otherwise it just seems to be feeding people's egos to get "blinked" at by other attractive people. High effort to find a date.


So online daters, don't forget to be nice to people you interact with on these sites. Chances are, you have more people in common than you think.

Update on Compliment Guy
We had date #2 on Friday. We played laser tag, not at an indoor place, but outside in a park. He and his friends are very serious about their laser tag. They have their own guns, wear ninja outfits and there was even some face painting. I actually had fun (and won a round), but Compliment Guy has been MIA since. It seems like chances are pretty high that he's not interested at this point. So, dear readers, it looks likely that there will be many more blog posts in my future.

The 24 Hour Date-a-Thon

The long holiday weekend meant time to schedule several dates, but I also didn't want to skimp on "me time" or time with my actual friends. If you know me at all, this is real progress. The weekend became tightly scheduled, and inadvertently I ended up with 3 (almost 4) dates in 24 hours. Oops.

I knew as soon as I realized what I had done that I had crossed a line. This was not going to be a good idea.


Date #1 - "The Compliment" Guy

First date was the guy from the previous post who I had been having the fun conversations with through the messaging app. I knew he was going to be trouble, in a good way, when I broke two of my online dating rules before even meeting him - a Friday night date and I gave him my phone number. Up until this point, I wasn't sure if I would feel like there was chemistry on one of these awkward, contrived first dates. Well, with this one there definitely was. He did, in fact, look like his photos, and the conversation was just as effortless as online.

We went to a little dive that had bar games. He beat me at pool, barely. (Thanks, Dad, for the pool table in the basement as a kid so I can hold my own.) I soundly beat him at skeeball, which I thoroughly enjoyed. A girl who was a bit inebriated and her friend played us in shuffle board. We won, of course, but the most entertaining part of the game was that she called me "white girl hot" (is that a thing now?) and kept referring to us as a cute couple fully knowing that it was a first date. It was hilarious.

Afterwards we got dinner, which he paid for. I was watching a YouTube video that he had pulled up on his phone and he paid while I was distracted. Sneaky. Around midnight, a friend who knew I was on the date sent me a text saying that I should probably go home soon, which I did. The perfect gentleman, he drove me back home, gave me a hug and said goodbye. He didn't ask to see me again when he dropped me off, but he did send me a text when he got home. I think he hit every single thing in the first date etiquette post. It's entirely possible he already found this blog. If so, well played :)

If there's a second date, there could be some potential here.


Date #2 - The "Should Have Been Rescheduled" Date

This was the last date that was put on the calendar and really should have been rescheduled. I told him that the only time I was free, and this was true, was immediately after I finished a yoga class and I only had an hour. I gave him the option to pick a different day, but instead we got coffee while I was in sweaty yoga clothes. I wasn't too excited about the date after how well the night before had gone, but this was just a bad idea. He was perfectly nice, and we had a pleasant conversation, but this date was doomed from the start.


Date #3 - Third Time Is Not the Charm

This date was the third time I was seeing the guy from the very first online date I had gone on. This is the guy where I wasn't sure if there could be chemistry on a first date but it was worth seeing him again. By date #3 there was still no chemistry. We went to an event that he's super passionate about. I had fun, but it became painfully obvious, at least to me, that this was not something I wanted to be doing all the time. There was no chance of this turning into a relationship. At the end, I wasn't feeling so great. I'd had several cups of coffee, a glass of wine and only eaten a few french fries after doing an intense 90 minute yoga class and running around in the sun the rest of the day. Not wanting to be dramatic and pass out, I quickly said goodbye and scurried off. I think I said goodbye a little too quickly, but that might have saved me from an awkward no 4th date conversation.


Almost Date #4 - Coffee Meets Bagel Guy

After I left date #3, I started getting messages from a guy I'd been matched with through another dating site called Coffee Meets Bagel. The premise of CMB is that the site sends you one potential match per day and if you both say yes, it's puts you in contact. Turns out CMB guy lives in my neighborhood so he was trying to see if we could meet up. Famished and taking too long to secure food for myself, I passed out on the couch instead. I woke up around midnight at which point it was too late to find food and far too late for any additional dates. #4 would have to wait for another day.


Sunday, a Day of Rest

I woke up on Sunday starving and very excited not to have any dates. It was a day of delicious food and sunshine surrounded by good friends. To top it all off, I got a text from "the compliment" guy asking for a second date. Great way to end a 4 day weekend.