It's Not Official Until It's Facebook Official

So, folks, here you go. The final blog post.


The first message

Toward the end of July, on a day when I had gotten home from a mediocre date that was number two of five for that week, I had a new message from a guy who I thought was very attractive.

You are quite the accomplished women. I admire the drive and the passion. I also work in tech, being a founding member of a social network out here in the bay. Tell me a little about your job, you seem quite passionate about it. What is it exactly that you do that allows you so much freedom for adventures?

Short, complimentary, and he had clearly read my profile. I clicked through to his profile. He had sunglasses on in the other two photos he had posted so it was hard to tell what he really looked like, but there weren't any creepy selfies or shirtless pics.  No red flags in the rest of his profile, though he did go to school that has a bit of a football history with mine and mentioned an interesting pop culture reference. I wrote back.

I work in HR and am lucky to be at a place that's generous with vacation time. Not sure what I think about you being a longhorn (fight on) and the d.e.n.n.i.s. system...

He responded about an hour later, and we started messaging back and forth. The cadence was rather slow. At several points there were a few days in between responses. That weekend was also my first date with Climber Guy.

Getting the first date

He first asked me out in message #3, four days after his first message. His date suggestion was dinner, which while not original is more of an investment than just drinks, and he did have a more adventurous second date hiking idea. I told him that the upcoming week was busy, which it was. I already had 3 dates scheduled and 3 nights booked with plans with friends. He waited six days to respond during which time I was starting to hang out more with Climber Guy and wasn't checking my messages too thoroughly anymore.

Five days later, when he followed up on his unanswered message, the timing started working more in our favor. Two days prior on a Thursday I had written this post pondering about how a relationship that started online actually moves fully into the real world. I should have realized that if I was thinking that much about it, it wasn't a good sign. On Friday, Climber Guy and I had an awkward conversation where it first became apparent that he wasn't interested in getting more serious, at least not with me. I wasn't in the best mood about this on Saturday, which is when the follow up message came.  The message simply said that he was still interested.

That Saturday was a bit of an emotional day, mostly concocted in my own head, but I went home and decided it was in my best interest to start responding to messages online again since it was looking likely that things weren't going anywhere with Climber Guy. For the first time in well over a week I started responding to messages and spent several hours online that night doing so. But for some reason the only date that actually got scheduled was in response to the follow up message. We sent several messages back and forth that night (28 to be exact) and scheduled a date for the upcoming Wednesday, three weeks after his initial message. He asked for my number once and I ignored the request. Then a few messages later he asked what the best way to reach me was. I said I'd message him on Wednesday.

So who are you exactly?

As Wednesday got closer, Climber Guy asked what I was doing that night. I have a date with someone else! I wanted to tell him that, though of course I didn't. He definitely suspected something was up when I was mysteriously unavailable. The whole thing made me feel guilty, as if I were cheating, but I knew it was a good idea to go on the date.

A few days later I was telling one of my fellow online daters that I was seeing a new guy that week. She wanted to check out his profile so I sent her his OKC username. As I was typing it out, the pattern of numbers he used looked very familiar. His username had his birthday in it, which was the day before mine. I then realized his username was just his actual name. A quick search and I easily uncovered his identity, including where he worked. In his first message he said he worked at a social network. The social network was actually a dating site. Oh this just got interesting.

I sent him a message asking which social network he worked at. He replied-

That's actually a very funny story. I can answer it now, or I can save it for our dinner, I'll let you decide.

I told him I could probably figure it out, since I already had, so he might as well tell me. He was completely upfront about it so I asked if he was doing research or actually supporting a competitor. To this he replied, he was actually using OKCupid for its intended purpose. I was a little skeptical, but willing to see if there was a blog post in the whole story.


The first date

Our first date went well. Dinner was lovely. We had good conversation. He was a perfect gentleman. After dinner he drove me home and dropped me off. A little bit later I got the first date follow up message -

I had a great time tonight. We should do this again.

To that I replied -

I had fun too :)

The next day partly out of curiosity, partly for blog material, I tried to create an account for the site he works at. I couldn't log in. Somehow I had created an account previously, though I don't remember doing this, and in trying to reactivate my account, I had gotten stuck in a weird error loop. I sent him a text telling him his site didn't work. I've been told there's still an open bug they're working on to fix this. I feel pretty proud of myself for finding a bug. Italian Bear understands :)


The second date

We started texting back and forth, but at this point I was still seeing Climber Guy, and I didn't at all like the feeling of seeing multiple guys at once. So I kept delaying a second date. The following week things ended with Climber Guy. First he said he didn't feel like there was a "spark", but the conversation quickly turned into how when he's in a relationship he wants to be single and when he's single he wants to be in a relationship. Whether or not there was anything I could have done differently, it was pretty clear that he wasn't ready for a serious commitment. Regardless, I was a little down about the whole thing.

I wasn't really in the mood to go on more dates so I stayed off the dating sites, but the text conversation was pleasant and fun so I kept that going. The week was busy and I had a friend and her toddler coming to stay with me that weekend so I wasn't sure if or when a second date would happen. But he was persistent and unfazed by a three year old so he joined the bunch of us for pizza. We had a fun, though very atypical, second date.


I have a blog

The following week I was out of town for work for a few days. While I was gone, we were talking back and forth quite a bit. The topic of writing came up in the conversation. Hmm, maybe I can mention the blog through this conversation. Sure enough, that worked and when I told him I had a blog on online dating, he wanted to read it. I sent him the link and he read through the whole thing. Much to my surprise, he actually liked it. Then he of course wanted to know what was happening with Climber Guy since I hadn't written any updates recently. I explained the story I told above and he seemed satisfied with my answer. We scheduled a date for the upcoming weekend.

After our third date, I went online to look through the old messages he had sent. His account was gone. He had either blocked me or closed his account. I texted my friend who had checked out his profile before and asked her if she could still see it. Account was closed. I texted him about it. He said, "It had served its purpose :)"


It's not official until it's Facebook official

Fast forward to this past Sunday. We had gone on 8 dates already and spent nearly the entire weekend together. Spending time with him was easy and fun. I was at his place doing work, and he was napping on the couch next to me. I decided to add him as a friend on Facebook. I was curious what his reaction would be. He saw the notification when he woke up, smiled, and said, "So it's official now?" I said, "Yes, we're officially Facebook friends." He had a smirk on his face, and I knew he was up to something. He said, "What if I up the ante?" Then I saw a notification come through.

I asked him if this was him asking me to be his girlfriend and he said it was. I warned him that it was going to cause a stir on Facebook, which of course it did. Someone asked if he was Climber Guy, and since the post is shared on both of our Facebook pages, all of his friends saw that too. He apparently now is teasingly being called Not the Climber Guy. He doesn't really need a nickname now since he already revealed his identity, but he gets to be called boyfriend which seems much better to me.

Feelings, Nothing More Than Feelings

It's not easy being (orange/)green

I love personality tests, which in and of itself says something about my personality. While the tests are clearly not gospel, they are pretty accurate in pointing out where my relationships tend to go wrong.

I am...

• ENTJ (Myers Briggs) 
• Orange/Green (True Colors)
• Achiever, Strategic, Competition, Self-Assurance, Command (Strengths Finder)
• 3w2 (Enneagram)
• More spontaneous, adventurous; less independent (OKCupid)

What does this all mean? I'm a pain in the ass to date. I'm a walking contradiction. Not just in a relationship, but in all parts of my life. I like adventure and a schedule. I act fiercely independent until I seem super clingy. I come across as incredibly calm and emotionless, except for those somewhat inappropriate emotional outbursts. I have to be in charge, unless I have no opinion or disagree in which case I want nothing to do with making a decision. And I need to understand things. Everything.

I feel so alone

There's a great article going around about being an extrovert. I don't seem like an extrovert since I'm often quite quiet until I have something to say. But I love to be around people ALL THE TIME. I could be around people pretty much 24/7, and I would be perfectly ok with that. In fact, it would make me very happy. It's not that I can't be alone. It's just that I very much prefer and am much more energized when I'm around people. Even at work I would prefer a day of meetings to a day spent alone in my office.

Being an E (extrovert) combined with my J (judging) tendencies to have everything planned can be tough in a relationship. My social calendar is often planned out weeks in advance. A weekend spent alone in my apartment sounds like the worst weekend ever. I often tend to date guys that are P (perceiving) and are incredibly averse to planning more than 5 minutes into the future. If the guy is any part introvert, I'll likely drive him crazy since if given the option, I'll be around all day long. I've calmed down about this after years of frustrating relationships, and I'm starting to be better about just scheduling my own things. If he wants to see me he'll figure it out.

If everyone else jumped off a ... <already running out the door to find this bridge and jump>

Oranges are adventurers, risk-takers. I am a complete adrenaline junkie. I've done most of the standard adrenaline junkie activities with the exception of hang gliding, and that's only because it was too windy the day I was supposed to go in Queenstown. This means that a lot of the time my life is super exciting, but it also means I'm often attracted to terrible men. The party guy, the flirt, the alcoholic, the cheater. They're incredibly fun at first, but when my need for schedule and being goal-driven take over, it often ends the relationship in some sort of spectacular fashion. I'm trying now to look for someone who's a bit more balanced and over his Peter Pan phase.


Feelings, nothing more than feelings

Yes, I have feelings. No, you're not going to see them very often. A quote that is becoming popular to explain how ENTJs approach feelings is, "I'm sorry you have to die." It's true. At work, I have to go far outside of what's normal for T (thinking) me to relate to the F (feeling) people. I schedule lunches and coffee breaks, which is very J of me, with my direct reports to try to convey that I do actually care about them as people.

Talking about how I feel isn't always the easiest thing. When I'm dating someone seriously, I often revert to saying "I love you" way too much. I want to express that I'm feeling something and often that's all my brain comes up with. I've been told I trivialize the phrase, which is not at all my intention. In most of my life, it is the purely rational side of my brain that makes decisions. In a relationship, when the emotional side starts to take over I don't like it and I want to go back to my logical thought process.

It also doesn't help that I need to understand EVERYTHING. As a kid I had lots of books with titles like "How Things Work". The N (intuitive) side of me likes systems and how things are interrelated. I often see the patterns in things far sooner than other people. If I can't understand what's going on, I get super frustrated. I had one ex who tried to tell me that there were some things about his behavior I just wasn't ever going to understand and he wasn't going to try to explain. That didn't go over too well and the relationship did not end very pleasantly.


I like swimming, especially winning

At a work debrief of Strengths Finder, the facilitator asked if there was a strength that people didn't understand or made them uncomfortable. One girl raised her hand and said competition. I was one of two people in the large training room with competition as a strength. I have always been competitive, and my parents have no idea where it came from. As a tiny 8 & under swimmer, after a race I once threw a tantrum, hurling my cap and goggles onto the ground. I was upset not because I had lost, but because I hadn't gotten my best time. I had actually won the 25m race by more than 10m. Needless to say, my parents were mortified. After my first big win at championships that season, I was interviewed in the local newspaper. In part of the interview I said, "I like swimming, especially winning." Even as a child, I didn't like to lose.

age 9

ready to race

The competitive thing doesn't play out well in relationships. I don't like to feel like I have to compete for someone's attention. The competitive side of me is often not too likable. I've realized I need to be in a relationship where I can have a calm, rational conversation with my significant other if I'm upset about his interactions with someone else. This is a hard thing to be able to do though.




Alright, enough of my self-absorbed psychobabble. This probably isn't directly relevant to you unless you're trying to date me, but I'm realizing more and more how important it is to truly understand myself. To understand how I react to things, what I need, how I'm perceived, and how that can either strengthen or destroy a relationship. The description of Enneagram Type 3, strikes a chord in me:

Everyone needs attention, encouragement, and the affirmation of their value in order to thrive, and Threes are the type which most exemplifies this universal human need. Threes want success not so much for the things that success will buy (like Sevens), or for the power and feeling of independence that it will bring (like Eights). They want success because they are afraid of disappearing into a chasm of emptiness and worthlessness: without the increased attention and feeling of accomplishment which success usually brings, Threes fear that they are nobody and have no value. 

The problem is that, in the headlong rush to achieve whatever they believe will make them more valuable, Threes can become so alienated from themselves that they no longer know what they truly want, or what their real feelings or interests are. In this state, they are easy prey to self–deception, deceit, and falseness of all kinds. Thus, the deeper problem is that their search for a way to be value increasingly takes them further away from their own Essential Self with its core of real value. From their earliest years, as Threes become dependent on receiving attention from others and in pursuing the values that others reward, they gradually lose touch with themselves. Step by step, their own inner core, their “heart’s desire,” is left behind until they no longer recognize it.

While this is indicative of my personality type, I think it's telling for how easily anyone can lose sight of what's truly important to them. I highly recommend taking a few introspective moments to ponder some of these things about yourself. Or if you're a super E, grab a friend and discuss for a few hours.

Journey from First Message to First Date

Today we're going to do a deep dive into how the 19 first dates I've been on have come about. From who sent the first message to how long it took to ask me out. Here goes.

Meme courtesy of C.W.

Sources

OKCupid has overwhelmingly been the best source of dates. 17 of the 19 dates have been from OKC. Of the other two, one was from Coffee Meets Bagel and the other from match. Granted I have been on OKC longer, but the dates from OKC started materializing quickly, while the other two are lagging far behind.

The first move

For every single date I've been on, the guy has sent the first message. I haven't sent all that many messages out first, but so far none of those have turned into dates. The mutual matching thing has been useful though. It's a very easy way for me express interest without even needing to send a message. Five of the dates came about from a mutual match of some type, though in every case with the exception of the CMB date where you rate simultaneously, the guy has rated me highly first.

The first message

The messages I've responded to that have turned into dates haven't been that long or even that clever. Nearly all of them referenced something in my profile, usually one of the activities I mention that I'm clearly passionate about, and most were only a few sentences. If I feel like there's enough in the message to start a conversation, it's not rude, and I find the profile pic attractive, I'll click through to look at his profile and decide whether to respond.

GUYS: Don't waste a ton of time writing a first message. Just read her profile and mention something about it  that you find interesting.

LADIES: Write about things that you're passionate about. Make it easy for a guy to find something to reference.

Pulling the trigger

Average number of messages he sends before actually asking me on a date is four. A few asked in the first message and the longest was seven. The longer ones usually happened when there were quick back and forth messages right away. Generally I'm going to get bored with the conversation if he doesn't ask me out relatively quickly. I say in my profile that I'm not looking for a pen pal. We're all on these sites to go out on dates so there's no point in beating around the bush.

The waiting time

After he asks me out, there are usually quite a few messages back and forth to schedule the date and pick an activity. Some banter is helpful too so that it all seems a little less awkward. It averages out to be twelve messages that he sends before we actually meet up.

From first message to first date is averaging a little over eight days. This is partly because I have generally avoided weekend night dates and reserve at least two weekday nights for my friends so that only leaves three possible nights and weekends during the day. The average is definitely going up as time goes on since my schedule is getting packed earlier and earlier in advance. I've only once met up with a guy the same day he asked me, and that was because he realized I had found him on LinkedIn already. Oops. Need to make sure I'm logged out before doing any investigating.

The date

Despite saying I like creative dates, the first dates have still been mostly the standard - seven have been drinks, three coffee. For the creative dates, leading the way are climbing (2) and the Exploratorium (2). If it's a non-creative date, I generally make sure it's somewhere close to home for me. I don't mind going farther if it's something a little out of the ordinary.

A second date?

So far all four of the guys I felt like I hit it off with have asked me on a second date. The asking on a second date situation has varied quite widely. For all four second dates, the guy has asked me out again AFTER the date was over either by text or via the messaging system. Five more guys have asked me out explicitly (as in saying let's plan a day and time) and I have declined. Four additional guys at the end of the date said they wanted to hang out again, but I never heard from them. I wasn't interested and would have declined, but I find this intriguing. Perhaps my somewhat flippant reply made it obvious that I wasn't interested, but if that's not the case, I wonder why the guy even bothered saying anything. Maybe he felt like it was polite? It's odd though. Five guys disappeared after the date, never to be heard from again. And the last one messaged me after, but never asked for a second date and faded away too.

GUYS: Just wait until later to ask her out a second time. It's awkward if she's not interested, and you seem like a gentleman for following up if she is. Wins all around!

Of the second dates, two were dinner, one was drinks and the last was the infamous laser tag. I went on a third date to a Giants game at which point I realized there definitely wasn't chemistry with that guy. The other third date was a bonfire which was super fun. There's still one more in play for a potential third date, but we'll see how things progress.

Tuesday is Ladies Night

Today the focus is on the ladies. Specifically, on do's and don'ts for female profile pics. I polled a few of my guy friends who are (currently or formerly) active online daters, and their responses were relatively consistent. Interestingly, they all had a lot more on their "don't" list than pics they feel like they must see.


Va va voom

All of the guys were pretty upfront about the fact that they want to find your photos attractive (shocker). We all know that men are visual creatures. You need to give them enough to pique their interest while still thinking they can take you home to mom. Men and women approach the profile pics from totally different points of view. One friend summed it up well -

Men make the mistake of posting the kind of pictures they want to see (too much skin). Women make the mistake of trying to hide their perceived weaknesses.

Like the women, men really just want to know what you actually look like and not be turned off or confused by your photos.


The close up pic

The best practices for this photo are the same for both genders. This photo should be a clear, straight on, recent shot of your face where you're smiling. No sunglasses or other objects covering your face. Included in the no objects covering your face is a fake mustache. I don't really get this trend, but apparently it's super popular. Think about it ladies... this is not attractive to a man. He does not want to wake up next to someone with facial hair, and the whole point of these photos is for you to look attractive to him. Save the fake mustache pic for Facebook or Instagram. And no duck face or selfies. These two got a resounding no from all of the men I spoke with.

The body shot

This photo is a must have. It doesn't need to be head to toe as long as it is very obvious what your body type is. As women we all have a body part that we absolutely despise, but chances are, most guys would have no idea which body part that is. Most guys aren't looking for a supermodel (if they were attractive or wealthy enough to bag a supermodel, they'd likely be out doing that). They simply want to know what you are going to look like when they meet you. On the flip side, if there's a body part you want to flaunt, do that but tastefully.


The action photo

With the action shot, a good tactic is to provide a photo that has something about it that the guy can use to strike up a conversation. Let's face it, they're going to spend more time looking at your photos than reading your profile so be prepared for your photos to be more frequently mentioned in a message than what you write. Include a photo or two of you doing an activity that is one that you would like the guy to do with you. He's looking for common interests in your photo. Don't use a photo that is an activity you don't actually like or do very often. If you don't like hiking, don't include a hiking shot.

Photos to use with caution

• Party pics: If you have one of these, guys will assume you drink/party a lot. If you do, then keep the photo up, but make sure it doesn't look like your dress is about to fall off. If you're not looking for a guy who likes to party, choose another pic.
• Bikini shot: Most guys said the bikini shot is ok as long as it's tasteful and preferably an action shot like playing volleyball. I don't have a bikini shot. I'm scared to think what kind of messages I'd get, but this wasn't something that was necessarily a turn off if executed well.
• Costumes: Most female Halloween costumes are a little slutty. Or if it's "clever", he might not get the joke. In most cases, costume shots may not get you the response you're looking for so use sparingly.
• Group shots with girls: He wants to know what YOU look like, not your friends. He doesn't want to guess which one is you. And you really don't want him thinking your friend is hotter than you are and wondering how he can meet her instead.
• Group shots with guys: One guy said that if the guys look as attractive or less attractive than he is, the guy shots are ok. Most of the guys said he doesn't want to wonder who all of the guys are. In general, it seems like a good idea to leave these out.
• Cropped photos: If you have a group shot where you look really hot, be careful with cropping everyone else out. If it looks like you awkwardly cropped out your friends or your ex, he's going to wonder why you don't have a better photo.
• Pets: Don't be the sad, crazy cat lady.
• Trying to hard: No photos where it looks like you're trying super hard to be sexy. Guys can smell desperation through their computer screens.

OKCupid also has an interesting feature on the page where you upload your photos called My Best Face. It basically does A/B testing on your photos and tells you which one is best. My action shot, in which I'm wearing sunglasses but you can see what my body looks like, is my best according to this tool. But take it with a grain of salt. The sample size used for the test isn't that big. The photo of mine that was rated lowest has also been the topic of the most interesting messages I've received.

Just like for guys, a good rule of thumb is to let a friend check out your photos. Preferably a guy. They don't usually hide reactions well so you'll know what he thinks. 

Mustaches and a group shot - no and no

Why Don't You Like Me

Rejection is never fun, whether it's virtually or in person. People on online dating sites really don't take it well sometimes. The rules of etiquette are different online, but some guys get upset if their version of the rules don't quite match up with a girl's.


Hello? Can you hear me?

With the free version of OKCupid, you can't see if someone reads a message you send. On other sites, you can't always tell who is an active, paid subscriber and who isn't. This causes quite a bit of confusion for some guys when you don't message them back.

Hi, I sent you a note a couple of days ago. Did you read it ?

Yes, I did read your message. No, I'm not responding. Sorry.

I feel bad if a guy has clearly put in effort to write a note, but I can barely keep up with responding to the guys I might be interested in (and the guys to mess with). I don't really think it would make anyone feel better if I wrote back saying he wasn't my type.

Online Etiquette

Looking back through my message history, there are quite a few message threads where I've been the last one to write. I can see the guy read the message, and he never responded. I wasn't super interested in any of these guys so I hadn't even realized until I looked back. I'm sure I would have noticed if there was a guy who really stood out from the crowd, but with the barrage of messages I didn't. I feel less bad about not responding to everyone after discovering this.

The online world is just different. You don't know these people (at least you think you don't), and there's a good chance there won't ever be a platonic relationship that you have to worry about preserving. Everyone is busy so that means people just don't follow up like they would in other situations. It certainly stands out if someone does, but it's not the norm. You don't have to respond to every message or send a follow up after every date. For some guys, this just isn't OK.

A "no thanks, I'm not interested would have been polite"... I'm glad not having to deal with you ;) I wish you the best :)

This message was sent ONE DAY after the initial message. I don't always respond to work emails one day after getting them let alone every message I get on a dating site! This guy was stressing himself out way too much. And what is the point of sending a second message and insulting the girl! That's definitely not going to get a positive response.

You really need to relax. That message was quite rude. I actually am just replying to my messages from the last few days now and was planning to respond to you. I have this thing called work that keeps me busy during the week so I don't always respond immediately. But now, I'm definitely glad I didn't respond sooner.

Insecure guys seem to think it's ok to write insulting messages when they'd never have the guts to say anything like that in person. But better to find that out quickly than waste your time.


The World's Smallest Violin

I don't know any women who think a whiny man is attractive, but yet they send these follow up messages that are so pathetic. I don't understand what they think it will accomplish. Maybe they're just not thinking.

Why no response? :( 

Oh no. Don't take what I said the wrong way.

Ok. Think I'm getting a hint.

These messages don't necessarily seem that terrible, but when they're at the end of a string of painfully boring back and forth, they seal the deal.


Would you mind humoring me?

I got one message on match titled "Would you mind humoring me for a moment?"

Having been unsuccessful in attempting to make contact, I must be doing something wrong in order to try receive a response... If it's an age thing, I get it, but if that's not exactly it, do you think you might have an honest suggestion as to what a normal person does to try to make a connection on match, or at the very least, get a reply? 

Don't feel obligated to reply, but but you seem like you would be worthwhile getting to know, so thought to at least give a shot at sending you a note... or maybe time to decide why one would continue to use this service. 

Hmm. I didn't even remember this guy messaging me in the first place. I looked him up. He was well outside my age range and didn't live in the city. I wrote him back and explained that. There were also other things in his profile (like lack of adequate photos - he had one of his face and one of his feet) that would have made me not message him back, but I didn't go into it with him. I offered, but he ignored that part.

It's fascinating that guys and girls have such vastly different experiences on these sites. I would have to be really interested in a guy to notice that he hadn't written me back.


What to do? What to do?

There seem to be a few tactics that do work at least a bit.

• Buy A-list for OKCupid if you're going to worry about whether someone read your message or not. The "did you read my message" message is never a good idea.
• Use the VIP email for match. You get a special "very interested person" email that you can use occasionally. Apparently even a non-subscriber will be able to read this message. In match you can see who's read your messages once you've paid yourself.
• If a girl doesn't respond to your first message and you really want to send a second, do everything you can to sound confident. I did get one that said he doesn't usually send a second message but he was interested and thought it was worth a shot. The conversation ended up not going anywhere, but I did respond to that one.
• If a conversation has died and you want to revive it, don't be whiny. She's already engaged with you so unless you did something dumb, she's probably willing to restart the conversation. Keep it short and upbeat, and she'll likely respond.

Now that I've realized there are quite a few conversations that have died on my end, I'm wondering if the same tactic for reviving a conversation works for girls. I'll have to give it a try.

Trying to Find Jesus

Yesterday morning a friend sent me an email titled "Nice little good morning to me" with the below attached.

Seriously? Who sends crap like this at 12:57 AM to a girl who has never messaged him? And for the record, she is definitely not "fugly". What kind of a guy would intentionally try to upset a girl like that? Well, I was going to find out.


What's in a name?

I decided to engage the guy and see if I could figure out what his deal was. And maybe mess with him a little too :) He claimed to be a swimmer. That should be an easy in for me since my profile talks a bunch about swimming.

So you say you're a swimmer? Tell me more ;)

Bingo. He wrote back.

You shouldn't like guys like me...reevaluate your priorities.

This guy was a piece of work. But he was right. I shouldn't, and don't, like guys who send nasty messages to girls in the middle of the night. I replied -

I never said that I did like you. I only commented on your username.

Who do you think you are? God?

I suspected that this would get him going, and it did.

lol...burn. you like my pretty face. but guys that look like me won't settle down, they will use and move on. you'll never tame me. 

you seem nice, but will constantly date douche bags like me if you go for my kind of face. I say this because i'm feeling extra kind today.

best of luck. marry a geek and he will worship and adore you. or always aim to find a legend like me who will walk into any room and have any girl...

What was this guy's issue?! Did he have a god complex? Jeeeez. You're feeling extra kind today? Must be my lucky day then! Something wasn't really adding up though...

For someone with those kinds of super powers, a dating site seems like a lot of effort. Why bother? You could just walk into a bar and take home any girl you want. Why spend energy replying to online messages?

He told me he was "trying to find jesus ;)". Really? You're not doing such a good job at that, buddy.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't have a profile

I got a "haha" back to that one. The legend himself thought I was funny. Go me. I asked what he was planning to find if he wasn't going to be able to find Jesus.

social experiment actually... 

a friend of mine is on here, and he thinks my looks will attract all and even tho he looks good, he isn't quite a model like me. 

I think it is funny how I have a ridiculous profile, practically an asshole. and yet I get more replies and messages than he does because of my face. 

he is actually a better person, equally good looking enough in my opinion, and has a solid profile. yet, no dice. 

shallowness...simple conclusion. girls say they want to find that one great guy, but they all go for douche bags and assholes. 

so online or in person, girls are same. go for douche.

Who's your friend?

Social experiment you say? I know a little about those. This reply sounded a little fishy. I don't know too many guys who are like this guy was claiming to be who would waste their time doing this. (And I do know those guys. I've dated quite a few of them. If you're reading this, you know who are you.) Those guys are either out at the bar or picking off the hot, insecure girls from these sites. They're not sending insults in the middle of the night. And they certainly don't say that their less attractive friends are better people.

So iSwimmer, you never answered my original question. Are you actually a swimmer or is this part of the experiment?

His response started with "lol". <eye roll> He said he tried to match his friend's profile like for like except for the photos. This was blatantly untrue because his profile was barely filled out and he hadn't answered any questions. If his "friend" were less attractive and had a profile like this, that explained why he wasn't getting any attention.

I asked for his friend's username and said I was curious. I saw that he read the message but didn't respond. So I wrote him again -

Aw you're not going to tell me. That's no fun​

He read that message as well, but as of this morning, the account had been deactivated. I think we won this battle. My hypothesis is that there was no friend. Some loser guy created a fake profile with an attractive photo and was sending nasty messages to beautiful women because he was bitter that none of them like him. Hopefully the guy didn't just create another profile. If you know the guy in this photo, let him know some jerk is using his photos to create fake OKC profiles.


In other news...

According to match.com, I'm having a good week! Woooooo!

Too bad only about 5 of them were worth responding to.

I Know You Are, But What Am I

Some guys just don't get it. At all. And I don't think they ever will. But when you call them out on this, they really don't like it. Some resort to the most infantile name-calling. It's hilarious.

<insert eye roll>

The other day I got another terrible first message -

How does a girl like you get to be a girl like you?

Oh please. What does that even mean? (That was my actual response, and my response back to him.) Then I realized that this guy had messaged me before. But not just once before, THREE TIMES. I've already even written about him in a post. He was the guy who called me Hilary Duff. He seemed to have zero recollection of messaging me before. This was going to be fun.

Oh please. You again.

You've messaged me before

His response to "what does that even mean" was just classic - 

I'm not exactly sure. 
But the first sentence you send a girl has to not be ridiculous... 
But it should at least trigger a response. Which it did. 

Let's break this down. First, he sent a message and he doesn't know what it means. Why would you do that? How do you even know if the response is a good one if you don't know why you're asking the question? Next, he thinks that this is *not* a ridiculous message? Oh yes it is, my friend. Now it did trigger a response, but only for the purposes of this story. Finally, it's not the first message he's sent. This guy is clueless.

After his lovely response, I told him he has messaged me before. His response just made him more irritating -

I have.... 

And what....you have zero interest in chatting with me? 

Or....a little bit more than zero?

More eye rolls. I replied - 

Just wondering why you referenced the first sentence you send a girl when that was not the first sentence

He, of course, does not respond to this, but he does go on to sarcastically call me a "wonderful conversational companion". Send asinine first messages to a girl over and over, then try to insult her? Oh this guy's got it coming. More inane back and forth, then he asks, "Are you always this lovable and charming?" Of course I am! ;) To this he replied -

Well. Show me.... I wanna see it.

I told him that I don't perform on command, but he could ask me a question. Here's his beauty of a question -

When's the last time you cuddled a cute boy?

Just shoot me. You don't know anything about someone and this is the question you ask? Eye roll, eye roll, eye roll. Not only was this the question but he followed it with "teehee!" and 5 minutes later asked why I hadn't responded yet. I have things to do besides deal with your mind-numbing messages! My response (I just couldn't pretend to take this guy seriously) -

As I don't have any kids off my own, I don't cuddle with children. 

This was when he started to get mad. You would think he'd just stop responding.

You're just not funny

After my response, he told me he knows everything about me that he needs to know. I told him -

I knew everything I needed to know last time you messaged me :)

And that's not even totally true. I knew I would never meet this guy in person just by looking at his profile. He has two photos. His main profile photo is a kinda cheesy black and white head shot with his eyes edited to be green, but a really fake creepy alien green. His only other photo is the same head shot pasted onto a Vogue magazine. Ugh. He asked me, rather he said "pray tell", what I knew. I told him that I wasn't at all amused by the "always a bridesmaid" message. He was proud of himself for bothering me, but he was clueless. It doesn't bother me that I'm not married, and I've only been a bridesmaid a handful of times. What bothered me was that the message is tacky, and I specifically said in my profile that I didn't think insulting first messages were funny.

He went on to throw out insult after insult. I wasn't exactly sure what I did to tick him off so badly, but I really got him going. He got defensive and went on the attack. Meanwhile, I was "LOLing" and enjoying a lovely glass of wine.

Some of his insults -

You are a royal pain in the ass. [Guilty as charged]

Sweetness is a virtue, young lady...and you lost your virtue long ago... [Maybe I never had any virtue in the first place? How does he know? He just started talking to me]

You have NO SENSE OF HUMOUR. You're uptight. Guys don't like that, darlin' [Is he British or Texan? So confused]

I didn't send you a message because I wanted to go out with you. 
I just wanted to clue you in that you're a needy, shallow fruitcake, who would be lucky to bag a guy on market street, on the curb drooling on himself. [You didn't send me *a* message. You sent me FOUR]

Ask yourself why you don't have a hot date tonight to brag to your girlfriends about on Monday morning. [I actually did have a date. He called me a liar multiple times after I told him that. And it's really sad that he thinks I'd only want a date to be able to brag about it. Please. Writing about him is way more entertaining to all of you]

Once upon a time, there was a girl who was a pain in the ass, couldn't get a date for Sat night..and will never get married because she's so annoying. The end! Remind you of anyone you know.....teehee!!!  [Teehee is the only thing I find more annoying than LOL]

How many tubes of concealer do you go through a month? 

The last one I found particularly amusing. If you've ever met me you know that I don't wear much makeup at all. Not only do I not go through makeup quickly at all, I probably still have makeup from prom. I should do an inventory and throw that stuff away.

He also went back to look at my profile and wrote this -

Remember. This is you. 
less progressive 
less kinky 
less spiritual 
less pure 
less independent 
That's everything a growing boy needs. 

OKCupid takes the questions you answer and determines your "personality". Now keep in mind, all questions are optional so this isn't exactly scientific. In fact, I'm pretty sure they just get drunk on a Friday at the office, make this shit up, and laugh about it. I hadn't looked at this part of my profile in awhile so I was curious. Yup, it does in fact say this. It also says I am more experienced in life, into exercise, spontaneous, energetic, cool, adventurous, and competitive. I'll take my "more" list over the "less" list any day.

I was bored and had a date to get to so I told him, "You're no longer amusing me." Then I blocked him.

I Regret Nothing!

When a guy resorts to immature insults, my Ice Princess instincts kick in and I find it much easier, and more entertaining, to mess with the guy than to get upset. (You can thank my high school boyfriend for giving me the Ice Princess nickname.) However, I’ve been lucky that none of the jerks have been guys I’ve actually met in person. I have somehow managed to keep them contained to these websites.

A friend of mine wasn’t so lucky. She went out with a guy and when she told him she wasn’t interested, he went psycho to the point where he was actually being frightening. She is an attractive, intelligent, successful woman who does not under any circumstances deserve to be treated this way.

A group of us have been giving her our two cents on what she should or shouldn’t do next. I thought we could break down what happened for all of you so that this never happens to her (or any of you) again, and you all could help us decide what she should do.

His profile

I love OKCupid A-list and its invisible browsing. It means I can check out profiles for my friends and the guys will never know. So this guy’s profile has a bunch of red flags -

1. He’s listed as “replies often”. That means either no one messages him or he’s desperate and writes back to everyone who gives him the time of day.
2. In two of his photos, there’s a girl standing next to him who is cropped out. I don’t care who she is, but don’t make girls guess. Get a better photo.
3. He says he’s 5’8” but has no photos of him standing in a group where you can see how tall he actually is. The chances of him actually being 5’8” are slim to none.
4. His 2013 to-do list includes several adrenaline junkie activities, but other than one whitewater rafting photo, there’s no other mention of being an adventurous person on his profile. As a true adrenaline junkie (“Hi, I’m S. I’m an addict.” “Hi, S.”) I can tell you that he wants people to think he’s adventurous, but he’s really not. I’ll take it back if he actually ends the year with a Tough Mudder race bib like he claims he will. Even if he does, it’s a fun race, but it’s not actually that impressive.
5. He mentions something about being good at making up reasons for why he’s on an online dating site. Combine that with his height and he likely has some serious self-esteem issues. (Sorry to the short guys out there, but it’s true.) He also mentions that he doesn’t eat fruit. That’s just weird.
6. He says he’s interested in girls 18-35. 18??? That’s disgusting and nearly half your age.
7. He says you should message him if you’re an emotional drunk because watching a breakdown is entertaining. Seriously, dude? I already want to smack this guy.

Pre-date messages

The first message wasn’t too bad. A little long, which reinforces the desperation that his profile insinuates, but it was generally complimentary. It asked whether or not she usually dates Asian guys (she is Asian), again implying that he doesn’t have much self-confidence. The message was also sent at 4:15 AM. The warning bells are getting louder.

Unfortunately, my friend made a few classic blunders. First, she apologized for not living in the city. Don’t apologize for anything before you meet a guy. You’re a catch! He should be willing to go to Timbuktu to meet you. Then, she gave both her phone number and name out before he did. She hates these messaging systems, as most of us do, but it’s jackasses like this that continue to prove my point of why it’s worth keeping your information private until you meet the guy and can see if he’s going to go completely bananas on you or not.

Once they moved to texting, the guy started showing his true colors. She suggested a neighborhood for them to meet in. He started interrogating her about why she wanted to go to that neighborhood and got upset that she had plans for later in the evening on a weekend night. (This is why I don’t do weekend nights for a first date.) Then he started saying that she’s going to “dine and ditch”. She felt bad that he got that impression, but in actuality, he’s an ass for ever even implying this in the first place.

The date

The date was fine, but she wasn’t feeling any chemistry. He said a few weird things, like that he once had a girl throw a pepper shaker at his head during a date. (I’m sensing a pattern of behavior on his end.) She offered to split the bill, and he declined as he should have. His profile says he makes over $100K so it’s not like this was a big imposition. She then offered to buy him a drink because she felt uncomfortable after the “dine and ditch” conversation and wanted to make sure he didn’t feel like she was taking advantage of the situation, which does happen. It was fine for him to go for a drink, but he should have paid for the drink as well if he were a true gentleman.

Then he continued to break all sorts of first date etiquette rules and asked her what she thought of the two of them. He didn’t just ask her out a second time. He asked her to define their 5 minute long “relationship”! She told him she thought they were better as friends and immediately realized he was actually interested. Then the crazy appeared.

Post-date messages

First message from after dinner -

FYI the best etiquette is to insist to split the bill if you're not feeling a connection

Nope, buddy. You may think you’re super smart with your midwestern MBA, but the best etiquette is for the guy to pay. Period. She apologized, which was again unnecessary. And despite the apology, he started being a total f-ing douchebag.

I was trying to keep an open mind despite the ethnic studies, mannish look and marketing background. Thanks for the lesson on generosity.

My friend was obviously shocked and disturbed that she was getting this ridiculous of a response. She said that she hadn’t intended to lead him on. She was being genuine with him, giving him very straight answers. There was nothing she could have said that would have made him calm down. He went on to call her a lesbian, since in his puny little mind she must like women if she’s not into him, and said she had a thick bottom half, which she does not. She got a little peeved and called him an “MBA douchelord” (thanks for making all of us look bad, jerk). He continued to insult her personality, her appearance and her career. Mocking her career and company (saying she works on a no name product that’s destined to fail) was particularly amusing to me since he is working at a start up that is very much struggling to get off the ground and has been rejected multiple times from the company where she works. Impressively, she ended with -

I still wish you the best. It's very sad to see such a hateful litany from you. I don't think you're this kind of guy whatsoever and am hoping you're just having a bad night. Take care of yourself.

He continued to send her nasty messages, proving just how insecure and pathetic he is.

Now what?

So, my dear readers, we’re leaving it up to you to decide what she does next. Several of our friends are a little, shall we say, vindictive. Personally, I think we can take the high road (which is what she has already done and plans to do unless convinced otherwise), be intelligent and still show the asshole just how awful he was. Here are our options:

1. Online retaliation

   Example: set up a fake OKCupid or Grindr profile with his info and mess with him

2. Offline retaliation

   Example: flyer his office with print outs of the asinine texts he was sending

3. Circulate this post

Personally, I think any additional attention that she gives him feeds his pathetic little ego. She (and the rest of my friends) are better off focusing their time and attention on the nice guys out there who aren’t going to treat women like this.

If you agree with #3 (and live in or know anyone in SF), I’ll ask a few things of you:

1. Send this to all of the girls you know who are doing online dating so they know to avoid this guy if they ever run across him or a guy like him
2. Send this to any guy you know who could be a douchebag online dater
3. Repost this on Facebook or whichever other social networks you’re on

I don’t think I’m underestimating how small San Francisco is or how powerful the network of business school students is in this city when I’m guessing that this blog post could very easily reach his inbox by the end of the day. Like I said previously, when you’re online dating it’s in your best interest to treat people well.

This has been a public service announcement. The end.